"now you know - it's not Europe"

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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby kais » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:30 pm

what about a lower orbit, canceling some g's with spin?

if you are going to do that you might as well just put it in space and spin it to make "gravity". It would be a whole lot easier. Whats so special about Jupiter anyways?
--knowledge is power, guard it well.
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby llearch » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:08 am

kais wrote:if you are going to do that you might as well just put it in space and spin it to make "gravity". It would be a whole lot easier. Whats so special about Jupiter anyways?


Large magnetic fields and much interesting research about a huge (and I do mean _huge_) ecosystem?

Or, as Sir Ed put it, "because it's there"
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby kais » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:22 am

llearch wrote:Large magnetic fields and much interesting research about a huge (and I do mean _huge_) ecosystem?

I forgot about the magnetic field... that would be something worth researching. Is it valid to call it an ecosystem when we have no indication that there is any biological activity there? It seems like the "ecosystem" is just a bunch of liquid hydrogen...

doctor100 wrote:well, one thing I learned from ringworld pop culture is that non-orbiting ringworlds are unstable. And I don't really consider anything that needs a never ending supply of energy to correct itself to be feasible unless you actually have a (near) never ending supply of energy. . .

wouldn't the abundant, nearly pure hydrogen that makes up its atmosphere provide that supply of energy? And it wouldn't need to be at 1G to prevent it from burning up, that is caused by air resistance, right? It seems like you could just put your station in orbit and spin it to get the "gravity" you want. Or, if you want real gravity, just put it 40000 km above the surface and have a hydrogen powered thruster.
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby Tropylium » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:37 am

kais wrote:
llearch wrote:Large magnetic fields and much interesting research about a huge (and I do mean _huge_) ecosystem?

I forgot about the magnetic field... that would be something worth researching. Is it valid to call it an ecosystem when we have no indication that there is any biological activity there? It seems like the "ecosystem" is just a bunch of liquid hydrogen...

With trace amounts of just about everything gaseous, including carbon monoxide which should not exist in such a reducing atmosphere :wink:

kais wrote:
doctor100 wrote:well, one thing I learned from ringworld pop culture is that non-orbiting ringworlds are unstable. And I don't really consider anything that needs a never ending supply of energy to correct itself to be feasible unless you actually have a (near) never ending supply of energy. . .

wouldn't the abundant, nearly pure hydrogen that makes up its atmosphere provide that supply of energy?

Jupiter is rather poor in tritium (or viable sources) so perhaps extracting magnetic or tidal energy would work better.

Tho if you have the resorces to set a Jovian station up in the first place, probably D+³He or D+D fusion are available too…
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby doctor100 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:02 pm

So if I understand that right, you could use Jupiter's magnetic field as a source of energy.

so rather than solar power, you'd be magnetically powered, making Jupiter your 'sun' for energy.

As for native ecosystems, I think venus is a better bet to produce life on that wasn't compatible with human environmental (non-colonization) ; but I guess you could try to seed Jupiter.

First off I doubt if the deliberative effects of g spin and gravity are the same, long term.

And when I said spin, oops, I meant orbit.

<ps edit> suggest cutting off the first couple of post, and moving this to Random, and relabeling, "Now you know -it's not Europa"
Particularly considerign that so much of morality is emotional based 'not to hurt people' 'don't be mean' 'build community' 'listen' 'be humble', a logical answer doesn't present itself, the problems exist in an emotional framework.
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby Idolrevolver » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:09 pm

doctor100 wrote:So if I understand that right, you could use Jupiter's magnetic field as a source of energy.

You don't.
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby Tailsteak » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:51 pm

Yeah, I was gonna say - if you could get energy from a planet's magnetic field, the only power plants in the world would be giant coils that produce free power, at the small cost of compasses no longer working.

Also, we'd have environmental activists warning people not to overuse their appliances, or all life on Earth would be wiped out by solar flares.
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby doctor100 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:57 pm

Wait, why the heck not? I mean, i know a magnetic field doesn't supply power-unless it's moving, which it is.

Loss of energy effecting the life of the planet, seems debatable, first off, I think that the loss is not likely to be very quick for such a large planet, second, as I understand it, if we do much to heat the atmosphere of Jupiter the effect may well be negated.

I also don't assume it would be a sole source of energy, I'm sure that solar would still be harvested, but while i understand current technology would have trouble pulling electromagnetic energy from the ebb and flow of the inner earth, I don't honestly see why it wouldn't be theoretically possible??

What've I got wrong?

--Doctor100

> I mean hell, if it is static, can we use if for suspension?
Particularly considerign that so much of morality is emotional based 'not to hurt people' 'don't be mean' 'build community' 'listen' 'be humble', a logical answer doesn't present itself, the problems exist in an emotional framework.
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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby typhon » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:39 pm

What you got wrong is that, to harness energy from a moving magnetic field, you have to use something that doesn't move relative to it, a stator thingy. Besides, the sheer size of the inductor needed would probably make it collapse on itself. Finally, producing electricity in space, whatever the means, isnt a good idea if you plan to use it for domestic use (unless you ALSO want to live in space, but that's a different matter).

Happy New Year to everyone.

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Re: "now you know - it's not Europe"

Postby Idolrevolver » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:50 am

Is it easier to build gigantic coils in space with unknown consequences for the planet, or to just build a fusion reactor?
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