466: Bad Idea.

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466: Bad Idea.

Postby Carnie » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:42 am

No.

Stop. Cease. Desist. Refrain. Ixnay. Do Not Do This Thing.

Max, Carol, I know you're just trying to help here, but this is a bad idea. Why? Two reasons. First, this is simply not who Gina is. While I believe that there are ways of increasing her attractiveness for the purposes of a date which are not in defiance of such, none of them fall under what is implied by the term "makeover"; especially not when uttered by a group of people that includes Carol. (Granted we don't really know Carol that well yet and I'm basing this mainly on her appearance, but her comments in the last panel back me up on this.) Thinking that Gina "needs" a makeover is just being narrow-minded and ignorant.

Second, Jamie both cares even less about such things than I do, and has even less social tact than I do. I project an 85% probability that this endeavour is going to result in Jamie inadvertently hurting Gina's feelings with a comment to the effect of "You just look silly."

Discus.

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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Merle » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:10 pm

It may depend on how Max and Carol approach this...I mean, I have not actually undergone a makeover myself, but it seems like the kind of thing that could be enjoyable/relaxing if your friends are doing it with/to you. I can definitely see Gina wanting to stay conservative, given the rest of what we've seen of her character, though.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Alex Starkiller » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:23 pm

That is a very nice discus, thank you.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Deepbluediver » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:03 pm

Your link leads to comic #465 instead of #466.

Carnie wrote:Stop. Cease. Desist. Refrain. Ixnay. Do Not Do This Thing.

Ok, I know that it seems bad. Except that Max and Carol are not 10-year-old girls at a slumber party (well, Carol isn't). Gina probably doesn't have to worry about looking like she's wearing clown makeup. If Carol really has a sense of fashion (as opposed to just "make every girl look like me") then I'd be cautiously optimistic that this might turn out alright.

There are degrees of dress and style that fall between nun and barfly.

Edit: Also, kitchens can get quite warm; personally, I'd never cook in a turtleneck anyhow.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby RyukaTana » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:32 pm

The idea that this is somehow some terrible idea smacks of feminism, and I never use that word to describe something good. First, remember that this is a comic, Carol's being played up for funnies, that's how comics do. Beyond that, these are her friends, and we have no indication that they're going to 'rape' her with make-up. If she is honestly, truly unwilling, they are likely to lay off. People resist things they are curious about all the time, people resist things just out of some 'moral dilemma' they feel they must have all the time. Maybe Gina seriously doesn't want it, but that doesn't make it not okay for Max and Carol to push past her initial resistance to find out.

I'm not advocating the idea that women need make-up to look beautiful. If Gina wants to remain a 'plain Jane' (no insult intended), there's nothing wrong with that. I doubt Max and Carol are about to Geisha her up Mulan-style (I am aware of the culture clash in that statement, it was intentional), if that were the case (or turns out to be the case) I'll be in full support of it being a bad idea. However, it will be a bad idea with silly, stupid, funny results, not likely one that's going to topple Gina's existence.

Also, if she gets her 'feelings hurt' over a comment Jamie makes, without any insult intended, over something she didn't even choose to do herself, that would really be more Gina's problem.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Merle » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:40 pm

RyukaTana wrote:The idea that this is somehow some terrible idea smacks of feminism, and I never use that word to describe something good.


That is why you fail.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby RyukaTana » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:02 pm

If failure means not fighting for equal rights by fighting for the rights of a single group, I'd absolutely rather be a failure. If feminism is about actual equal rights, then the word 'feminism' is absolutely worthless.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Packbat » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:23 pm

I don't think Carnie's objection was based on feminist theory - just basic concerns of tactics and self-determination. Let's not derail the conversation.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Bramble.Chappell » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:03 pm

RyukaTana wrote:If failure means not fighting for equal rights by fighting for the rights of a single group, I'd absolutely rather be a failure. If feminism is about actual equal rights, then the word 'feminism' is absolutely worthless.


"Feminism" refers to many different ideologies, (which is why I avoid using the term by itself) several of which, in my opinion, are at least as harmful to women as the things they're campaigning against, but let's remember that it at least began as a push toward legal and social equality, even if a lot of people today make it about promiscuity and eagerly perpetuating the dehumanization of women. You make a fair point about the word "feminism" being shifted to one side in spite of being at least theoretically about equality, but that's because most agree that women have been and continue to typically be the injured parties in a sexist culture. (Though, yes, of course such a culture is also harmful to men, if less directly.) You could argue, depending on what part of the world you're in, that that's no longer applicable, but, living where I live and having seen what I have, I have to say I strongly disagree.

*Ahem* To get back on topic, Gina's reaction made my day. Nothing wrong with it if she'd decided to go through with it, of course, but given what we've seen of her character, it seemed her two likely paths were "go through with it out of a simple failure to resist and be made extremely uncomfortable," or... well, this. I think it says something about her priorities, maybe even her self-image.
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Re: 466: Bad Idea.

Postby Alex Starkiller » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:46 pm

RyukaTana wrote:If failure means not fighting for equal rights by fighting for the rights of a single group, I'd absolutely rather be a failure. If feminism is about actual equal rights, then the word 'feminism' is absolutely worthless.

Fuck, that's right. It's either describing radical "feminists" or it's just another synonym for "equality" and thus doesn't need to exist. I didn't think of that.
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