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gender=culture?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:16 am
by chasbanner
Would it be a good idea to think of gender as a culture? That is a bunch of behaviours and stuff you choose, so being (say)british-male would be just a type of life you choose like choosing to be french-female, pakistani-male, geeky, or camp?

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:08 pm
by Tem
No.
Babys are not assigned a culture the moment they are born, and treated accordingly. "Oh no, it is a German! I always wanted an American! Well, lets make the best of it and socialize hir to be subservient to Americans!"
Gender is a means of oppression, culture, as a whole, is not. Some "cultural" practices are tied to gender, but people don't declare their children they intend to oppress to be of a different culture than they themselves.

A better comparison would be race. Gender is much like race. Slavers in the American South did indeed enslave their own children based on race. And they assigned a race based on the skin colour. Culture had nothing to do with it. Black people who imitated white culture were still enslaved.

And women who try to behave like males are still subject to sexist violence, even moreso than gender-conforming women.

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:36 pm
by Nepene
chasbanner wrote:Would it be a good idea to think of gender as a culture? That is a bunch of behaviours and stuff you choose, so being (say)british-male would be just a type of life you choose like choosing to be french-female, pakistani-male, geeky, or camp?


You don't really choose your culture so probably not. Your parents might decide you're a part of youth culture and oppress you based off that, they might decide to raise you in their chosen culture, your friends might decide your culture, your spouse might. Culture is a lot more malleable.

There's some genetic element to gender. Most women are shorter, less muscular, most men are unable to bear children, have beards. Fiddles with it in a way race or gender doesn't tend to.

Plus there's varying levels of treatment, while people of other cultures just get the 'other' treatment. There're distinct ways of treating masculine men, feminine men, feminine women, masculine women, ways that are unlike the rather unified way people treat those of other cultures.

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:13 am
by chasbanner
I'm sorry.
i didn't mean "Is culture an accuracte description of gender as it is now"
I meant, more like "Should we, going forward, start to think of gender as more like a culture?"

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:15 am
by Nepene
That would probably massively worsen the issue because there are intense culture wars.

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:17 pm
by Tem
chasbanner wrote:I'm sorry.
i didn't mean "Is culture an accuracte description of gender as it is now"
I meant, more like "Should we, going forward, start to think of gender as more like a culture?"


Ah, okay. That makes sense. Sorry I misunderstood you.

I actually don't see why we would need gender. Though I am all for replacing it with something like culture.

Certain things, like wearing impractical dresses and using make-up, and so on, shouldn't be called "feminine" because they have nothing at all to do with the female sex. Though they could be a lifestyle choice. Like goth or emo or whatever. In fact, those gender markers that are not harmful are, more often than not, already part of some cultures. Like kilts.

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:44 pm
by chasbanner
Nepene wrote:That would probably massively worsen the issue because there are intense culture wars.

like liberal/conservative?


Tem wrote:Ah, okay. That makes sense. Sorry I misunderstood you.

I actually don't see why we would need gender. Though I am all for replacing it with something like culture.

Certain things, like wearing impractical dresses and using make-up, and so on, shouldn't be called "feminine" because they have nothing at all to do with the female sex. Though they could be a lifestyle choice. Like goth or emo or whatever. In fact, those gender markers that are not harmful are, more often than not, already part of some cultures. Like kilts.

Yes exactly! Imagine a little area of a city in the future where everyone male/female old/young shops a lot and wears pink and is gentle and such. Except it wouldn't called girly-town it'd be called "elfuvian-ville" or something.

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:36 pm
by Tem
chasbanner wrote:
Tem wrote:Ah, okay. That makes sense. Sorry I misunderstood you.

I actually don't see why we would need gender. Though I am all for replacing it with something like culture.

Certain things, like wearing impractical dresses and using make-up, and so on, shouldn't be called "feminine" because they have nothing at all to do with the female sex. Though they could be a lifestyle choice. Like goth or emo or whatever. In fact, those gender markers that are not harmful are, more often than not, already part of some cultures. Like kilts.

Yes exactly! Imagine a little area of a city in the future where everyone male/female old/young shops a lot and wears pink and is gentle and such. Except it wouldn't called girly-town it'd be called "elfuvian-ville" or something.


Might work, though I don't think you can throw it all together. There are people who like to go shopping, there are people who like to have long hair and not everyone all people who like dresses like the colour pink.

After the abolition of gender, such subcultures would evolve in an organic way, I think. (Though a subculture that imitates the Tolkien-elf cliche would be hilarious.)

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 4:03 am
by chasbanner
Le suilon! :D

Re: gender=culture?

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:59 am
by Nepene
chasbanner wrote:
Nepene wrote:That would probably massively worsen the issue because there are intense culture wars.

like liberal/conservative?

Yes, I could imagine that the elfuvian ville you note before which is pink and gentle would be rude and abrasive to anyone not wearing pink. We shouldn't encourage segregation of cultures, we should encourage tolerance and acceptance to different types of behavior and clothing.