Should I have kids?

Serious discussions on politics, religion, and the like.

Re: Should I have kids?

Postby Globus » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:15 pm

RyukaTana wrote:We have far too many children in the world, an unhealthy amount

Are you aware that 51% of the global population fits in a 4000km radius circle on a map, about half of which is ocean? Earth is way less oversaturated as the career panickers make it look like.

RyukaTana wrote:The ability to support a child does not a good parent make, and fuck, our society is good at fucking children up.

For me, that cannot be reason enough to not recommend it to someone I barely know.

The rest of your post are, well, your points, I'm gonna let you make them.
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby crayzz » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:03 pm

Globus wrote:Are you aware that 51% of the global population fits in a 4000km radius circle on a map, about half of which is ocean? Earth is way less oversaturated as the career panickers make it look like.


When did physical space become the key issue in overpopulation? Typically, resources and infrastructure are more important.

Globus wrote:For me, that cannot be reason enough to not recommend it to someone I barely know.


Let's look at your recommendation:

Globus wrote:Of course you should have kids. Everyone should have as many kids as they can afford to grant a lifestyle they find acceptable for themselves.[1] I'm not gonna pretend I'm a trained doctor or counselor, there are a lot of people on this forum who will[2], but the way I understand it, the concept of the Id is bullshit.[3] It seems logical though, that if you have an urge to make babies, you won't hurt your child.[4] I actually think hurting other kids in defense of your own is the less remote problem. And I cannot in good conscience, deny you that right.[5]
Hell, having a baby to care for may even help you rein in the bursts of agression.[6] There are many cases where having a child completely changed a person.[7] I don't know of even one occurence of the urge to have children just.... pass. It is unheard of.[8]


1) This assertion is totally unjustified.

2) I don't actually know anyone who does this, but I'm not the most common frequenter.

3) I don't know what Freud's wacky theories has to do with this.

4) Wanting children and hurting children aren't even close to being mutually exclusive.

5) Rights were not in question.

6) Telling someone to take on a massive responsibility in the mere hope that it will help is both ridiculous and ridiculously irresponsible.

7) There are many cases where it changed nothing; this is hardly consistent, and definitely shouldn't be relied upon.

8) It really isn't.
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby RyukaTana » Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:53 pm

crayzz wrote:
First, crayzz, these are just the incidents he considers most notable in his life[1], of course there's more, everyone makes mistakes and fucks up and does stupid shit[2] constantly. Especially anyone who will off and beat someone down with a backpack for something they aren't sure was an intentional attack. Sorry, Cornhusk, that sounds harsh, and I admit I might be wrong, but it's one of the few things I know about you, and I know it would make me extremely wary of you until I got to know you better. Anyway, my first guess[3] is that this is symptomatic of an an issue that hasn't only manifested itself three times, those were just the three most egregious.


1) You'll note that I told this person to seek out therapy; I'm aware of their significance.

2) Don't do this. Fucking up like what's been described is not something just anyone does.

3) Guess all you want; I intend to cover my bases.


Cornhusk, it would be helpful for you to weigh in and respond. Helping someone through the internet is hard; helping them with a scant few paragraphs is even harder.

And seriously, get therapy (if you can afford it; I realize this advice is rather privileged). Find a therapist that uses actual science and research (you'd be surprised how many don't). Even if you think you'll be ok without it, a good therapist can make life and your problems easier to deal with.


First, I don't respect the science of psychology or psychiatry as it is generally practiced, so telling him to go to therapy doesn't register with me as valuable. That's not a criticism, it's an explanation of my response.

Second, I am not trivializing what he did, I think I made it clear one of those incidents is notably disturbing. I was noting that he has probably done a lot of things wrong, and that those three were only the tip-top of the pile most likely. Based on that we can't really know much about him at all. In fact, my very next sentence after your second mark indicates I don't think his actions were trivial, I would say.

I don't have anything to say to your third point, but as I said, I don't agree with psychology and psychiatry as 'sciences'. However, other than that, I agree with the rest of your statement, and your last post breaking down Globus's post (at least mostly).
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby crayzz » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:03 pm

RyukaTana wrote:First, I don't respect the science of psychology or psychiatry as it is generally practiced, so telling him to go to therapy doesn't register with me as valuable.[1] That's not a criticism, it's an explanation of my response.

Second, I am not trivializing what he did[2], I think I made it clear one of those incidents is notably disturbing. I was noting that he has probably done a lot of things wrong, and that those three were only the tip-top of the pile most likely. Based on that we can't really know much about him at all. In fact, my very next sentence after your second mark indicates I don't think his actions were trivial, I would say.

I don't have anything to say to your third point, but as I said, I don't agree with psychology and psychiatry as 'sciences'.[3] However, other than that, I agree with the rest of your statement, and your last post breaking down Globus's post (at least mostly).


1) Depend on whose practicing, which is why I told Cornhusk to be careful.

2) You kinda did, even if you didn't mean to. You didn't say that they weren't disturbing, you said that everyone did stuff like that.

3) What do you think disqualifies psychology from being a science?
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby RyukaTana » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:37 pm

No, I said everyone does 'stupid shit' in reference to the things we do not know that he has done other than the three incidents. I'm sorry if that was unclear, but that was what I meant. He has done things we don't know about that were likely mistakes, and some may have been quite notable, but we have no idea about those things, thus we cannot simply decide whether he would be a good parent because he feels poorly about these three incidents.

crayzz wrote:Then again, a total of 3 incidents (1 of which was as a child, the other as a teenager) in your life is hardly pathological, unless there's more you're not telling us.


RyukaTana wrote:First, crayzz, these are just the incidents he considers most notable in his life, of course there's more, everyone makes mistakes and fucks up and does stupid shit constantly.


This part of what you said, and the bolded part of what I said, are the key points. I was replying to the idea that he has obviously done more things, not necessarily as egregious things, but has made other mistakes, because everyone does. We don't know how big or small the rest of his mistakes are, and the fact that he beat a girl with his backpack leads me to feel there are other incidents that may not be quite so severe, but may still be notable.

I hope that clarifies.


As for the issues with psychology, I don't disagree with psychology as a science (which is why I put little marks around the word science in my post). I disagree with the 'science' of psychology as it is practiced. Most notably, I disagree very strongly with the concept of healthy or normal, and find it infuriating that we feel a need to 'fix' people who don't fit a certain standard. If that standard weren't so narrow, I'd accept that some things are just unacceptable, but the 'normalization' of people (and especially children), really pisses me off.

Not to mention the 'throw pills at it' method which psychiatry has been adopting more and more as time has gone on.
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby Godric » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:14 pm

Cornhusk, in my opinion it really comes down to you and how much you want a kid (and your significant other of course), but there has certainly been some good advice mentioned here to think about. It's already been said, but it's impossible to know every detail of your circumstances, or the circumstances of your aggressive outbursts. Getting advice from a professional therapist would be a good idea if you're worried it could happen again.
Be sure to listen to advice from others, just remember that the final decision should come from you and your partner.
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby Trolladriel » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:10 am

I would say that no, you shouldn't.
Having a healthy set of genitalia and the following urges doesn't make anyone a capable parent. In fact, the staggering majority of people that procreate make very bad parents.
The shaping and formation of a new human being is a deed of utmost importance, and it's really time that monumental work stopped being done by unskilled laborers.
There's high likelihood that you don't even want to do it, you've been simply brainwashed by society about it. But after you do it, you can't return them back to the shelter like a 3-legged sheepdog. What you are likely to do is to throw your frustrations and aggressions at them and continue the vicious circle of hurt and incompetent quasihumans.
And take into account that it isn't your own body that is going to be irreparably mutilated by forming and pushing out a new human, so you might be taking a lax approach, but is that level of harm really something you want to do to someone you love? Better throw them down the stairs really.

Most of us should just do like Max. Disable our various tubes and do something a little more worthwhile with life. The planet is overrun by humans most of whom are miserable, don't add to it.
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby Buta » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:32 am

Tailsteak wrote:I'm gonna disagree with Globus. Sure, having kids may curb your aggression, but there's no guarantee of it. If you legitimately think you would make a bad parent, then don't become one. It's not like the species is in any danger of dying out. Creating a human being because of something it might do for you seems kinda selfish to me.

Maybe try getting a dog or cat, see how you feel after a year or two of taking care of and being responsible for some other form of mammal.


Agreed. I wish more people thought about the consequences of bringing another life into the world.

I chose to not have children from a young age because I felt I would not cope well because of my life long health problem. As far as I am aware, I can bare children so I take precautions.

With this, some responses to my stand on it have lead to people aggressively asking why not and that I "should do it anyway". I tend to feel quite annoyed at this because it even comes from loved ones that should know me better than that. It is upsetting to think that just because I'm unwilling to churn out children that I hate kids. Some adults are just so damned thoughtless. Throwing a common result as a response to all queries.

Kids are a massive responsibility and are another thing all together compared to a pet. You give up a lot of yourself when you make that decision. people go around having accidental children - it breaks my heart but I guess winging it is better than some of the alternatives. Poor kids though - some don't even develop emotionally in a healthy way because the parent couldn't be bothered and told them to "get a thicker skin" or screaming at them when they're naughty (often caused by them craving attention from the parent).

In response to the OP, what is important is are you prepared to face the consequences of having a child, all things considered? Do you want kids? If you want a kid, do you have a fall back plan for when things do go wrong with your issue? Only you can make this choice and its important to remember that you HAVE THE CHOICE.

Edit: To add:

You do not need to listen to those urges. Based on the story you added, I recommend you both either get couples counselling or if you are as fed up as you sound, consider ending it.

I agree with others that have said to seek therapy. I am also kind of concerned that you might be thinking that bringing a child into your relationship will save it at a subconscious level... It won't.
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Re: Should I have kids?

Postby Tem » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:21 am

Cornhusk dreams wrote: As I was reaching my place she called me and asked if she could come over and sleep at my place. I said "No I'm not feeling up to it" she said please, and I said no again. She begged and I said "no" and hung up. Next thing I knew she was letting herself in. I told her to please leave, and said I wasn't up for dealing with her today. She begged to stay, I said no, she promised to be quiet and not bug me, and pointed out that it was a long way back to her place. I said "Alright but don't bother me"...
And then she started begging me to have sex with her. I tried to say no, I tried to tune her out, I tried pretty much everything. After about 15 minutes of her voice getting incresingly shrill as she demanded sex I grabbed her, threw her on the bed, pushed her roughly against it, and bit her shoulder hard.

She went absolutely silent. I growled and made a few angry noises. She stayed still. I let go. She started to cry.

And that's how I bit my girlfriend.


Usually, if someone ignores your "no", goes into your house without permission and demands sex, you call the police. Of course, that is not always possible, and self-defense may be necessary. If a man tried to do that to me, I might well bite him, and somewhere it hurts more than the shoulder.

On the other hand, you seem to be male, and stronger than your girlfriend, so you could have just thrown her out of your bedroom. Or your house.

If you want to have children ... children do cling to you and make demands, and children are allowed to do that because children need an adult to take care of them. You must be absolutely sure that you don't bite your children when they do that. Even if they're really getting on our nerves and you don't know what to do.


Couples counselling sounds sensible only because you're male. If you were female and your boyfriend behaved like that, I would advise you to end that relationship, and quick. And get a new lock on your door.

I don't say you were justified to bite your girlfriend, I just say she's not a person I would want to have children with.
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