33%

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Re: 33%

Postby Chaos_Descending » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:04 am

Oh wow. Oh Wow. I don't think I can let this one stand.

So, this is an old hat for Tailsteak, and if any of you have been lucky enough to read his book (you can buy it here) you would see this argument again. I can't say I agree how he goes about it, I feel the sarcasm is detracting from the point, but it's an educated one. Tailsteak spent time at bible school. He dedicated himself to learning this stuff. The general message I've always gotten from his hasn't been "God is evil" but "There is a logical fallacy here"

If God is good, why does he allow 67% of the population to exist in a hellbound direction? Why does he allow suffering in Africa? Why does he condemn unbaptized babies? If ignorance saves you from hell, then why the command to spread the word? The general point I've always gotten from his works on this basically "If this is what we believe, and this is true, then God is evil."

The natural follow up should be, "God is not evil, therefore we are wrong."
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Re: 33%

Postby Horizon » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:04 am

I finally understand what 33% is referring to(ratio of Christians to humans- 33 per 100).

Thanks for clearing that up, Chaos(genuine thankfulness. this was confusing me).
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Re: 33%

Postby Merle » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:18 am

Chaos_Descending wrote:Oh wow. Oh Wow. I don't think I can let this one stand.

So, this is an old hat for Tailsteak, and if any of you have been lucky enough to read his book (you can buy it here) you would see this argument again. I can't say I agree how he goes about it, I feel the sarcasm is detracting from the point, but it's an educated one. Tailsteak spent time at bible school. He dedicated himself to learning this stuff. The general message I've always gotten from his hasn't been "God is evil" but "There is a logical fallacy here"

If God is good, why does he allow 67% of the population to exist in a hellbound direction? Why does he allow suffering in Africa? Why does he condemn unbaptized babies? If ignorance saves you from hell, then why the command to spread the word? The general point I've always gotten from his works on this basically "If this is what we believe, and this is true, then God is evil."

The natural follow up should be, "God is not evil, therefore we are wrong."


I'm not seeing where you can take "God is not evil" as an axiom for this argument.
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Re: 33%

Postby Chaos_Descending » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:03 pm

Merle wrote:
Chaos_Descending wrote:*Snip*


I'm not seeing where you can take "God is not evil" as an axiom for this argument.


I take it as fundamental to the faith, part of the definition of God.

The Christian God is sold to people as all powerful, ever-present, and all-loving. He is perfection. The core of the teachings of Jesus comes to "merit alone cannot bring us to god, as no matter how good we are, we are not perfect as he is." It's all nested together.

(Side note/idea. I could see a story with an all loving god who is NOT all good. That get right into Lovecraft territory there.)
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Re: 33%

Postby RyukaTana » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:12 pm

Chaos_Descending wrote:I take it as fundamental to the faith, part of the definition of God.


Any argument you make that uses faith as the base, may as well be built on quicksand.
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Re: 33%

Postby Packbat » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:32 pm

Chaos_Descending wrote:(Side note/idea. I could see a story with an all loving god who is NOT all good. That get right into Lovecraft territory there.)

That could be definitely interesting - I am reminded of the premise of Ow, my sanity a little bit.
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Re: 33%

Postby snowyowl » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:21 am

I think WH40k has some gods like that. They're personifications of human emotion, not moral goodness. And yes, it's a horror setting.
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Re: 33%

Postby Chaos_Descending » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:45 am

RyukaTana wrote:
Chaos_Descending wrote:I take it as fundamental to the faith, part of the definition of God.


Any argument you make that uses faith as the base, may as well be built on quicksand.


Bolded for emphasis. While I am christian, and while in debates about God I have used faith as the basis of an argument, I am not so poor a debater as to leave THAT particular question as a "deal with it" moment.
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Re: 33%

Postby Packbat » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:18 am

Chaos_Descending wrote:
RyukaTana wrote:
Chaos_Descending wrote:I take it as fundamental to the faith, part of the definition of God.


Any argument you make that uses faith as the base, may as well be built on quicksand.


Bolded for emphasis. While I am christian, and while in debates about God I have used faith as the basis of an argument, I am not so poor a debater as to leave THAT particular question as a "deal with it" moment.

That makes more sense -- you're basically just saying "One man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens".
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Re: 33%

Postby Chaos_Descending » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:22 am

I had to look that one up.

I'm still not certain what you think I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I've noted a continuing theme in Tailsteaks work that confront logical fallacies that seem to illustrate a singular logical concept, that the Christian god is evil, or the cultural meta-canon involving how things work is very, very, wrong.
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