Tem wrote:RyukaTana wrote:If a woman wants sex, and she's even reasonably close to 'conventionally attractive'
IF.
And this is what sexist men don't understand: the women you deem unattractive are people, too, just like you, and they want sex, too. And by
not approaching them in an environment where it is not considered acceptable for women to approach men, you are just as bad as the beautiful women who say "no" to you.
If a
man wants sex, and he's conventionally attractive, he doesn't need manipulation, either. And if he isn't ... see above, there are women who have the same problem.
The difference: Women can accept that, maybe, they're not that attractive and should do something about that if they want a more attractive partner. But PUAs? Oh no, they feel entitled to sex with the most beautiful woman in the room. Regardless of their own attractiveness. And they're too lazy even to become an
interesting person. Probably, learning PUA manipulation methods is more effort than just getting a decent haircut and reading some interesting books to talk about with interesting women, but some people like to put more effort into cheating than they would have to invest to reach their goals by honest means.
I have to say Tem, there's a few things here I disagree with and feel the need to express my opinion as to why.
Firstly, pretty much your whole second sentence. While I don't believe a woman is "bad" for denying a propostion for casual sex, I don't think the two situations you compared are a fair comparison - you first put the man at fault for his inaction, whereas the woman is put at fault for her action, namely her denial. A man, not approaching a woman, isn't denying her casual sex, he's not doing anything in relation to that woman. He does not acknowledge and refuse her sexual interest in him because she hasn't demonstrated any, which is clearly the oppostie of the second situation, where the man has demonstrated a specific interest to a woman and his proposal was denied. This may be yet another one of those situations of much different cultures, but silence cannot be treated as a declaration, unless the person being silent has specifically said that such silence in that ocasion is a declaration - if someone you've never met or had dealings with sent a letter to your house that said - "If you do not respond to this letter within 24 hours you owe me $20.", would you believe yourself indebted to that person?
And what do you mean, "an environment where it's not considered acceptable for women to approach men", exactly? Within all of current western civilization, I can't think of such a place - is it just outside the door of a men's bathroom, towards the men inside? Because as far as my already admited social experiennce in nightclubs, that learned by proxy of friends, family and acquaitances, or just general
current pop culture, a nightclub isn't one of those places.
The other thing, while at this time ( namely, 1:30 AM) I cannot be 100% sure of it, your last paragraph seems to denotate that if a man puts enough effort into one or two aspects of himself, he earns the right to have sex with beautiful and/ or interesting women. You can't
earn the right to sex with a woman. It certainly isn't something that only happens when you're deserving of it either. That kind of thinking, that because you've done a set list of things, it entitles you to sex sounds more like something that would lead to rapist mentality ( see
here, moreso than that of a rational human being. You critizice PUA behaviour that leads to this feeling of entitlement, but frim your comment it seems it's only because gaining entitlement in the PUA fashion is "cheating" when compared to using "proper" methods to earn said entitlement.
Look Tem, I don't want to categorize you as a specific kind of anything, and at the moment I'm not even doing it in the back of my mind. It is perfectly possible that you have a way of further explaining your point that would do away with my problems with it, and I am really looking forward to reading it, but because this is ( by the very definition of it's name) a place to discuss, I wanted to to add my contribution to my conversation. I mean nothing of this as a personal attack, and I hope it does not come off as such.