Time traveller video list

Serious discussions on politics, religion, and the like.

Re: Time traveller video list

Postby Packbat » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:19 pm

@MysticWav: If we're going to try to influence history on a significant scale, we have to assume that the timelines are going to diverge ... in which case neither Al Gore nor George W. Bush are likely to even be born, much less find themselves competing for the Presidency in 2000. The main reason I grabbed the climate science video as my first pick was simply that this was something sufficiently robust to changes in the timeline that we can be pretty sure it won't change.

On which subject: another such thing is dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane and other insecticides, pesticides, fungicides, and miscellaneous industrial poisons. I haven't read Silent Spring (or any other book on the subject, at that), but if she were interested in a scientific career, giving her a leg up in terms of what we've learned about the ecological effects of large-scale deployment of agricultural chemicals might let her put more intelligent regulations get in place before there are massive industrial interests opposing it.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby MysticWav » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:45 pm

It's possible, but not all things are equally vulnerable to the butterfly effect, and it takes a while to propagate as well. So unless one of the earlier interventions causes such an effect, I think a lot of people are still going to be around. Plus it's a nice fallback in case she fails at the earlier ones.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby RyukaTana » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:01 pm

Tailsteak wrote:
If she was cute, I'd probably flirt with her if this works out (presuming she is coming back periodically and she begins to 'age faster' over the course of the visits). How awesome would a cross-temporal affair be?


She is fourteen.

Temporal mechanics aside, flirting with fourteen year olds in the hopes that they'll develop an infatuation for you in four years time is not romantic.


I wouldn't be hoping for her to develop an infatuation with me in 'four years' because I don't honestly give a remote fuck about the age of majority. If I like her enough to keep spending time with her while she tries to go back-and-forth through time, and I watch her mature over that time, I'd flirt with her. I wouldn't rape her, molest her, or manipulate her into sex, I'd just approach her like I would any other person with whom I have a meaningful relationship and to whom I am attracted.

I am not so prudish as to think attraction must begin at some specific age. Post-pubescent girls are supposed to be attractive to men, and I have no problem with whatever stupid crap someone thinks about me because of that. I won't rape someone, and I won't take advantage of a girl who isn't emotionally ready for sex. Either way, I'm not having sex with a 14-year-old I've known for a few minutes and will only have 30-minutes to spend time with, all this implies she returns time and again and we come to have a strong relationship over time.

Tailsteak wrote:I didn't say she was "bright-eyed" or "appeared bright", I said she's bright. If you can't teach her physics or economics or epidemiology in 30 minutes, that's on you.


I think this is a strong misunderstanding of what someone can be taught in 30-minutes. I can give her a basic idea of physics or economics (neither of which I think are remotely the most valuable things she can take back from 30-minutes time here), but I'm not going to give her a shitty lecture for half an hour. A better teacher gets to know their student first, and if all I truly have is 30-minutes, I can't even finish getting to know her, much less really teach her anything.

Also, given the whole time changing thing, I'd try to encourage her to get rich in bits and pieces (not all in one place, or enough to bankrupts anyone or boost a stock to ridiculous level), not 'wealthy', just rich. Then I'd hope she changes as little as possible, so that I might still be born to enjoy the benefits of her helping me if she so chooses. I don't honestly believe she's doing to have enough influence to make any changes that I feel would be valuable enough for me to risk giant world-sweeping changes over. Who knows, maybe 'killing Hitler' (as a metaphor for some huge, seemigly positive history-changing event) makes the world worse, not better.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby MysticWav » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:32 pm

Who knows, maybe 'killing Hitler' (as a metaphor for some huge, seemigly positive history-changing event) makes the world worse, not better.


That's true, but it's also true of our current actions in the present. I don't see it being any more irresponsible to take your best guess and go with it when altering the past than it is to take your best guess in your own time altering things going forward.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby RyukaTana » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:30 pm

The difference is I'm not changing unknown events, I'm risking my actual present. Also, I don't personally change events on a global scale right now, so on two levels it's very different than me, a single individual, taking actions that generally only affect my immediate surrounding and my unknown future.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby Felblood » Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:45 am

What if the guy how shot Archduke Ferdinand was a timetraveler, sent back to prevent our timeline from ever developing time travel?

We need to focus on things she can remember, and will be useful to her in effecting positive change. Let her questions guide the conversation toward thngs that interest her, but don't let her be Past Twilight, or there will be no time to explain.

I'd probably plop her down in front of a We didn't Start the Fire Montage (First one I grabbed), while I try to compose some mnemonics that will work for her.
I want logos and other images with proven traction in the human psyche.

The great depression will end, when America becomes the world's Armory. (Hindenburg fire.) BTW: Sell your hydrogen, and buy helium futures. It doesn't lift as well, but it's non-flamable.
There will be a second world war. (The Broken Marine, If I can find a good one on google image. Wasted 30 seconds and dropped it)
Good paying job in the war economy, when Hitler cannot be appeased. (Rosie the Riveter)


Expose her to some of the more growth oriented corporate logos (Mars Candy (later M&M inc.), Hershey, Apple, Geber, Microsoft, Pepsi, Dell, intel, nvidia, ati, are logos I have here in this room. DC, Hasbro, Star Wars, Disney, Nintendo, BF Goodwrench, Mario, and Sony would be good options, but I would have to google image them. Other industries like banking, chemicals, etc tend to have shitty logos. Car companies are nice, but most of the logos currently in circulation, belong to defunct companies who went bankrupt and sold their name and logo to pay their debts., and

Encourage her to invest everything she can spare. He who saves and owns will build a new great clan for the oligarchy to come.
Start a degree in something that interests you in the Postwar era. (Miter-board Hat and Diploma)
(Albert Einstein) "
Actually finish that degree, if there is anything in you that can do it, without cheating. It's even harder than it sounds, and the challenge will prepare you for what lies ahead. Just stay focused on your studies and fighting for your right to study.

There will be another Red Scare, but the thing we truly had to fear was fear itself.
If the 3rd world war were to be fought with nuclear weapons, the fourth will be fought with bows and arrows, if the world survives. These fireballs are each large enough to consume boston, and they each come from a single bomb, small enough to drop from an airplane.
This is the ultimate horror weapon, and lacking a way to protect defend against it we resort to a global standoff. The two great empires holding guns to each others heads, waiting for the other guy to look like he might be thinking about making a move.
Try to stay away from extremists during the Cold war. Both sides are more dangerous to their allies than their enemies.
Internal corruption and mismanagement renders the Soviet Communists unable to maintain their economy, and they collapse under the strain of the Containment. (Yes, it's tragically oversimplified.)
The Iron Curtain Falls.
Do not worship a political theory, or sacrifice your nation or people for one. They are merely tools for building nations and people, and a hammer can tear down more quickly than it can build.
If you have kids, vaccinate them against everything. ([url=wellbee]beewell[/url])
Forgive your enemies, and always repay kindnesses. You will need the extra friends when your allies betray you.
People are always only human, and all humans fail or fall short sometimes. Don't break down when your idols fail you.
China's billions of peasants are downtrodden serfs in your era, but today they have the most manpower and untapped natural resources in the world.




Let her posit alternatives, anything that will stick in her head.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby MysticWav » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:26 am

RyukaTana wrote:The difference is I'm not changing unknown events, I'm risking my actual present. Also, I don't personally change events on a global scale right now, so on two levels it's very different than me, a single individual, taking actions that generally only affect my immediate surrounding and my unknown future.


To go point by point:
1. Why should whether or not the events are known make a difference?
2. Your actual present is just someone else's past.
3. There is no difference in the globality of your actions and your time traveller agent's. They are still the acts of a single individual, acting on a human level in a way that could have been done without any time travel involved. When operating in the past you're just better educated about what decisions your making as opposed to flying blind in the present.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby Packbat » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:59 am

@MysticWav: All true, although I would like to point out that not all data are easily understood -- the world is a complicated place, and it's easy to think you know something and be wrong. It's easy to assume that, say, shooting Hitler could prevent World War II, but there were a lot of sociological, economic, and political factors behind Germany's decision to go to war again, and a murder that didn't prevent the war would just be tragic.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby MysticWav » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:55 am

We are in agreement on that. My only point was that "assasinating Hitle"r in the past would be no more irresponsible than "assasinating Hitler" today would be. You're just working with a better (though still imperfect) set of data when exercising your imperfect judgement.
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Re: Time traveller video list

Postby RyukaTana » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:26 pm

The difference in doing something in the past is it could stop me from existing now, at all. If I do something that gets me killed in the future, that's very different than never having existed at all. Whether or not that matters to me, would take more thought than just a few minutes of pondering about some hypothetical little girl.

However, the span of my decisions absolutely matters. If I were to make a decision of that magnitude at any time, past, present or future, I would think more about it. Given my understanding of the events of WWII (which really aren't as comprehensive as they should be, and I don't honestly believe they're necessarily accurate, since we have trouble getting accurate portrayals of present events), I definitely wouldn't assume killing Hitler would make things better. Also, I am far more concerned with subtle evils than grand ones, because grand evils get recognized much more quickly.

The point is, there are far more variables to consider when time travel comes into play, especially when I am manipulating events with such a huge influence on history.
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