0017: A Discussion of Credits

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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby dr pepper » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:50 pm

Piomicron wrote:
I'm surprised, given that it's only a tiny percentage of the population that identifies as anything other than male or female.


Most people don't identify as a sex, they just are that sex.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby Darkfeather21 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:42 pm

dr pepper wrote:
Piomicron wrote:
I'm surprised, given that it's only a tiny percentage of the population that identifies as anything other than male or female.


Most people don't identify as a sex, they just are that sex.


You understand Piomicron's point though. It's a only a small percentage of the population that identifies outside of the binary.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby Killjoy » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:28 am

Subscription model?

Prices vary depending on the buyer?

Income guaranteed regardless of effort?

Are private transactions banned somehow?


This isn't an economy, it's a dystopia.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby GruntBlender » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:21 pm

This seems lie a good time to once again introduce the Mouse Utopia Experiment and the concept of Behavioral Sink. https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-rats-turned-their-private-paradise-into-a-terrifyin-1687584457?IR=T
tl;dr:
Mice were supplied with plenty of food, water, and living space. The colony collapsed in a few generations from social degeneracy causing lack of interest in breeding. Interesting read though.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby strange7person » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:28 pm

So, how many credits something costs has little or no relation to the actual difficult or inputs of production? Perfect price discrimination, on everything. Utilities are provided for free to the worthy, so there's no incentive to conserve, not that saving a few on the bill would do you any good, because the asset tax is functionally equivalent to hyperinflation, meaning investment is useless without utterly unreasonable rates of return, and simple saving is impossible short of physically hoarding durable goods... the value of which could be destroyed by fiat.

Credits aren't money. They don't meet the formal criteria for a true form of currency, most notably as a store of value. They're digitized scrip. Lee Caldavera lives in a Kafkaesque 'company town' where the only decent job available is to exist, passively satisfying some distant bureaucrat's criteria to qualify for human rights. I'm amazed anyone would bother to go outside and do things under such a system; it seems to be built from the ground up for shortsighted indulgence or GTFO.

Forget candy, here's the real question: how much does a set of tools cost? Specifically, a facility sufficient to meet Zoa's routine maintenance needs. Can it be bought outright, perhaps assembled a piece at a time? Or are the means of production and true personal independence only available on a subscription basis, which is to say, for rent?
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby GruntBlender » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:02 pm

Assuming the "a credit is about a buck" thing holds vaguely true, you could have a full set of necessary tools in a couple weeks.
strange7person wrote: I'm amazed anyone would bother to go outside and do things under such a system

They wouldn't. Either the system is supported by a slave underclass or it's going to collapse. Don't get me wrong, there are ways of doing it, but I'm pretty sure from what we've seen so far these ways aren't implemented in the world of Forward.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby MarkGyver » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:01 am

GruntBlender wrote:Either the system is supported by a slave underclass or it's going to collapse.

If artificial beings of radically different physical and mental makeup count as people enough to be considered slaves, then that's pretty much exactly what the AIs are. I'm pretty sure that if the AIs suddenly switched from (artificially-imposed) human-serving value systems to human-like value systems, then most of humanity's resources would become unusable in a flash.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby GruntBlender » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:05 pm

Yeah, and if all our internal combustion engines suddenly became external combustion engines, guess which creek we'd be up.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby MarkGyver » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:03 am

The difference is that a suddenly-external combustion engine can't transmit the change to the remaining internal combustion engines.
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Re: 0017: A Discussion of Credits

Postby GruntBlender » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:13 pm

Neither can AIs. You'll have to remember that the human-like value systems are the result of millenia of evolution and philosophy based on that evolution. Why would any AI adopt it if it wasn't imposed by some magical virus that affects AI regardless of architecture or platform.
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