0023 - In which Lee is a person

Discussion related to Forward

Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby Killjoy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Look at an actual screwdriver, and consider its purpose.

Look at a butterknife or other blunt table knife, and consider its purpose.

Tools can be used creatively, but that doesn't make them all equivalent and interchangeable.
Likes his women like he likes his coffee... a little sweet, a little spicy, a little strong, a little earthy, a little smokey, totally honest, and maybe a little offended by being compared to a beverage.
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby GruntBlender » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:15 am

Merle wrote:
GruntBlender wrote:
Merle wrote:I'm sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I do think you're using arbitrary definitions as arguments. For one, there isn't really too much distinction between relabeling something and remaking it, at least in the context of Zoa's point...

To look at it another way, can you look at an object and determine what it is? If you look at a butterknife, you don't say, "Hey, that's a screwdriver." Why?


Because of subjective and preconceived notions, rather than inherent properties of the object? You have strong concepts of "butterknife" and "screwdriver". If I see a dinglehopper, I might know what it's for just as strongly as you say it's a "fork" (what a weird concept for eating food, stabbing it with four little knives held in parallel - so much easier to use chopsticks).

If I can't figure out what a dinglehopper is for by examining it, I'm not going to assume it's a hat. Step two would be to ask whoever made it. Failing that, it's a thing that I don't know what is, but boy is it a neat thingamabob.
"What's that?"
"I have no idea, but it looks cool so I keep it on that shelf."

Things ARE subjective and preconceived notions, otherwise they're just a bunch of atoms. Imagine a uniformly cut puzzle assembled randomly, it's kinda subjective as to whether it's assembled correctly, and really there's no reason the pieces belong together at all, but we can make a picture out of it that means something.

Then there are two categories of what a thing can be described as. One is what a thing is, another is what that thing does. A taxi is a small vehicle used to transport people for profit. That vehicle can stop being a taxi at it's owner's whim. It can't really stop being a vehicle though without modification. A screwdriver is both what an object is and what it does, that's true of most tools and utensils. Things have both form and function, and only changing their function is insufficient to change what those things are.
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby vel » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:23 pm

Deepbluediver wrote:I didn't really focus on it before, but Zoa has to have eyes the size of tennis-balls. I'm sure those HD lenses give her some great telephoto capabilities, but to see something like the rendered realistically would hit freaky levels of uncanny valley hard. It would be like getting a BJ from one of these guys: CLICK ME!

OK... I... HAD to mock this up.
This is a quick 5-min photoshop job from a stock photo, so, the hair looks wonky. Hair is a pain to mask well, and this was done purely out of morbid curiosity.
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby FlyingFish » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:13 pm

Something I'm surprised no one has addressed: Lee's linguistic musings in the last panel. I'd assumed that Lee's pronoun was "they" specifically because they were nonbinary/genderfluid. But it now looks like Lee hasn't even heard of any pronouns for human beings other than the singular "they." I'm guessing that, at some point, it became so potentially offensive to assume anything about a person's gender that people gave up on gender-specific pronouns entirely, and now (especially to people like Lee; I doubt they've read or watched anything more than 30 years old) those words have become as archaic and unfamiliar as "thou."
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby Luminous_Lead » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:03 pm

It's a post bio-gender society. According to comic 10's author notes this verbal denotation is practiced by the "vast majority" of people. This excludes robots which are not, legally, people.
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby Deepbluediver » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:36 pm

vel wrote:OK... I... HAD to mock this up.
This is a quick 5-min photoshop job from a stock photo, so, the hair looks wonky. Hair is a pain to mask well, and this was done purely out of morbid curiosity.

Gah! Why must you torment me so?!?!
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby GruntBlender » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:24 pm

FlyingFish wrote:Something I'm surprised no one has addressed: Lee's linguistic musings in the last panel. I'd assumed that Lee's pronoun was "they" specifically because they were nonbinary/genderfluid. But it now looks like Lee hasn't even heard of any pronouns for human beings other than the singular "they." I'm guessing that, at some point, it became so potentially offensive to assume anything about a person's gender that people gave up on gender-specific pronouns entirely, and now (especially to people like Lee; I doubt they've read or watched anything more than 30 years old) those words have become as archaic and unfamiliar as "thou."

Are you suggesting that the works of the immortal bard are unfamiliar to most people nowadays? That's sad. I'm sad now. Mark Anthony's Eulogy for Caesar is a brilliant piece of writing. Macbeth has some great lessons. What's the education system up to these days?
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby Killjoy » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:42 am

GruntBlender wrote:
FlyingFish wrote:Something I'm surprised no one has addressed: Lee's linguistic musings in the last panel. I'd assumed that Lee's pronoun was "they" specifically because they were nonbinary/genderfluid. But it now looks like Lee hasn't even heard of any pronouns for human beings other than the singular "they." I'm guessing that, at some point, it became so potentially offensive to assume anything about a person's gender that people gave up on gender-specific pronouns entirely, and now (especially to people like Lee; I doubt they've read or watched anything more than 30 years old) those words have become as archaic and unfamiliar as "thou."

Are you suggesting that the works of the immortal bard are unfamiliar to most people nowadays? That's sad. I'm sad now. Mark Anthony's Eulogy for Caesar is a brilliant piece of writing. Macbeth has some great lessons. What's the education system up to these days?


I'm sure there are people who read the older books, and are aware of the "pre-postgender" reality of most of the history of our species.

Lee does not strike me as that sort of person. Lee strikes me as absorbed entirely in "themself" and the present and whatever goofy Martial animated series it is they're obsessed with.

If I had my way, everyone would read Brave New World, 1984, Animal Farm, and We before leaving high-school... but I doubt this will ever happen, and I know most people I encounter will never have heard of half of those books, let alone have read any of them.
Likes his women like he likes his coffee... a little sweet, a little spicy, a little strong, a little earthy, a little smokey, totally honest, and maybe a little offended by being compared to a beverage.
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby GruntBlender » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:18 pm

But isn't there an education system in this future? Is education now completely optional?
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Re: 0023 - In which Lee is a person

Postby Killjoy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:25 pm

GruntBlender wrote:But isn't there an education system in this future? Is education now completely optional?


1. It's possible that not everyone spends time on "the classics" in high school.

2. Given what else we've seen, works with "gendered identities" might be deemed inappropriate for young minds and restricted to literature courses in college. :roll: :x
Likes his women like he likes his coffee... a little sweet, a little spicy, a little strong, a little earthy, a little smokey, totally honest, and maybe a little offended by being compared to a beverage.
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