0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circle o

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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby Killjoy » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:52 pm

tenshiko wrote:
Killjoy wrote:If someone else is covering all your needs for you, you're not really being an adult, you're effectively a child. An adult should be seeking to cover as many of their own needs as possible, and relying on others as little as possible.

In a system where all of everyone's needs are covered by the government, then they are all effectively wards of the state.


TIL driving on paved roads makes me a child


In most states you pay for access to that road via gas tax, licensing fees, etc.

Care to try again?
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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby tenshiko » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:17 pm

Genuine question. If there were 10,000 billionaires whose taxes were paying for the entire country. And everyone else had a reasonable amount. Would that be a problem
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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby strange7person » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:28 am

tenshiko wrote:Genuine question. If there were 10,000 billionaires whose taxes were paying for the entire country. And everyone else had a reasonable amount. Would that be a problem

Can't speak for everybody, but I'd certainly be willing to put up with about five times as many billionaires as we currently have in exchange for a fully-funded UBI. We won't know for sure what the problems would be until it's actually been tried, but the theory seems sound, initial studies have been promising, and it's got the right sort of enemies.
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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby tenshiko » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:42 am

Yes thank you. TBH the problems that Lee has, seem to be completely different from the problem of not having to earn money through a job. I imagine in such circumstances they would talk to other employees as little as possible and then come home to watch Marstaku media all night.

Like, where the hell are their parents? Correct me if I'm wrong but given the commonality of clipping and the similarities to Florenovia, Lee presumably had at least one stable guardian as a child. Given the quality of physical support, Lee's guardian outright perishing prematurely seems like an extraordinary tragedy that would get factores into their welfare. But Lee hasn't left the apartment in five years. Did the guardian come visit Lee? Or did Lee actively choose to let this social relationships languish?
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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby Killjoy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm

strange7person wrote:
tenshiko wrote:Genuine question. If there were 10,000 billionaires whose taxes were paying for the entire country. And everyone else had a reasonable amount. Would that be a problem

Can't speak for everybody, but I'd certainly be willing to put up with about five times as many billionaires as we currently have in exchange for a fully-funded UBI. We won't know for sure what the problems would be until it's actually been tried, but the theory seems sound, initial studies have been promising, and it's got the right sort of enemies.


Whereas I don't care how many billionaires would or would not be, I'd send back the UBI checks unopened.
Likes his women like he likes his coffee... a little sweet, a little spicy, a little strong, a little earthy, a little smokey, totally honest, and maybe a little offended by being compared to a beverage.
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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby woodslanding » Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:59 pm

I wonder what those complaining about the UBI actually do for a living. Do you enjoy your work? Do you think doing work that you don't enjoy is necessary to building character? In a world that requires less and less of us, most of us are absolutely turning into babies by the definition of any homesteader of 100 years ago. I'm glad folks can get so much sense of being self-sufficient by paying some taxes and bills, but I hardly think that makes anyone self-sufficient. I'd feel some pride in self-sufficiency if I'd grown all my own food for a year. But I don't value it that highly. I kind of like the way society makes things easier and frees us up to do things like art and science and inventing things.

I suppose that there are those who, without the grinding necessity of showing up for work every day would end up like Lee. I think that is a problem we are already facing, given the amount of entertainment we consume. There are millions of folks working 40 hours a week, but behaving more-or-less exactly like Lee the minute they get home. Is that so much better? I guess I'm not impressed. If you have a passion for something that takes as many waking hours as you can find for it, there is not much temptation to sit down in front of the TV, which is why I ditched mine 20 years ago. (I still do go on the occasional web-comics jag, though) ;)

I'm lucky. With a few short-lived exceptions I've always worked at what I love to do, and I would do it if I got paid or not (indeed, I do far more of it than I get paid for) unless I couldn't pay my bills. Did it build character for me to do those jobs that I didn't like? Maybe. My opinion is that they added stress to my life, and kept me away from my chosen field, so I don't see much value there. If there was UBI, I imagine we would get more comics from the author. I wouldn't see that as a loss to anyone. It's not the best use of the world's human capital for him to be working in a call center.

But maybe if he didn't have a horrible day job, his comics would suck?
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Re: 0098 - Good is fulfilling your role in the economic circ

Postby strange7person » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:18 pm

woodslanding wrote:I wonder what those complaining about the UBI actually do for a living. Do you enjoy your work? Do you think doing work that you don't enjoy is necessary to building character? In a world that requires less and less of us, most of us are absolutely turning into babies by the definition of any homesteader of 100 years ago. I'm glad folks can get so much sense of being self-sufficient by paying some taxes and bills, but I hardly think that makes anyone self-sufficient. I'd feel some pride in self-sufficiency if I'd grown all my own food for a year. But I don't value it that highly. I kind of like the way society makes things easier and frees us up to do things like art and science and inventing things.

I suppose that there are those who, without the grinding necessity of showing up for work every day would end up like Lee. I think that is a problem we are already facing, given the amount of entertainment we consume. There are millions of folks working 40 hours a week, but behaving more-or-less exactly like Lee the minute they get home. Is that so much better? I guess I'm not impressed. If you have a passion for something that takes as many waking hours as you can find for it, there is not much temptation to sit down in front of the TV, which is why I ditched mine 20 years ago. (I still do go on the occasional web-comics jag, though) ;)

I'm lucky. With a few short-lived exceptions I've always worked at what I love to do, and I would do it if I got paid or not (indeed, I do far more of it than I get paid for) unless I couldn't pay my bills. Did it build character for me to do those jobs that I didn't like? Maybe. My opinion is that they added stress to my life, and kept me away from my chosen field, so I don't see much value there. If there was UBI, I imagine we would get more comics from the author. I wouldn't see that as a loss to anyone. It's not the best use of the world's human capital for him to be working in a call center.

But maybe if he didn't have a horrible day job, his comics would suck?

Maybe if he didn't need a horrible day job, the sort of people who work in call centers on purpose (rather than under implicit threat of death) would turn out to be scarce, and thus in a better position to collectively negotiate their compensation package. Better for everyone - well, except the corporate overlords having to pay higher wages I guess. Might reduce profits a little bit, at least until that freed-up money circulates enough to boost the economy as a whole.

And of course the sort of people who enjoy dishing out verbal abuse on strangers who aren't allowed to respond in kind or hang up, they'd all have a much harder time finding targets. Most large-scale plans end up with somebody suffering for the greater good, so isn't it kinda nice to have that be a self-selecting demographic of assholes who had it coming anyway?
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