0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

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0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby dr pepper » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:20 am

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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby Killjoy » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:57 am

Patricia is a waste of flesh.
Likes his women like he likes his coffee... a little sweet, a little spicy, a little strong, a little earthy, a little smokey, totally honest, and maybe a little offended by being compared to a beverage.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby lolzor99 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:09 pm

Is Patricia's apparent avarice against a specific student inappropriate and/or disturbing? Yes.

Is she remarkably terrible at everything she tries to do? Yes.

However, the cause for which Patricia (presumably) fights is arguably in the right. Lee's abuse of the student housing loophole goes against the purpose of the subsidized housing-- clearly, if they set some kind of precedent and word got out, more and more non-students would use the same loophole and essentially push out the people who are actually meant to benefit from the subsidy: the students. Right now Lee is consuming more than their fair share of resources, and Patricia seeks to amend that.

In addition, the issue of having Zoa as an emotional support aid could set a similar precedent. Imagine robots who, instead of going door to door offering blowjobs, went door to door trying to convince people to take them on as an emotional support aid *on the college's money*, i.e. for free. Zoa has demonstrated the ability to act as a tutor, a motivator, and even as a form of transport. I think it's likely that other students would find such services useful, especially if they came for free. I have doubts that the university would be able to maintain their emotional support aid subsidy under such conditions. If they discontinued it, the people who the subsidy was actually for would suffer.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby tenshiko » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:51 pm

Lee moved into student housing during a past time when non-students living there was 100% allowed. They just never moved out. Now they're taking classes so they're a student and definitely can't be kicked out. Word getting out isn't a concern because nonstudents are already barred from the housing.

Zoa's case is a little murkier but still.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby lolzor99 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:24 pm

tenshiko wrote:Lee moved into student housing during a past time when non-students living there was 100% allowed. They just never moved out. Now they're taking classes so they're a student and definitely can't be kicked out. Word getting out isn't a concern because nonstudents are already barred from the housing.

Zoa's case is a little murkier but still.


You're right about Lee not being in the wrong for having student housing, I had forgotten the circumstances that led to their current housing situation. Still, the fact that they're taking up an entire apartment built to be able to house 3 people *might* be unethical. It's not really clear what the demand for student housing is like. Patricia paints it as fairly scarce, but that's in a monologue that's dubious in terms of its factual content. Tailsteak's comments on page 54 seem to suggest that the demand for student housing is not high, at least by my reading.

I suppose Lee lives a relatively frugal lifestyle, and that might be why she can afford the entire apartment (in addition to the implied lack of rent increases)? It's hard to say, but that would make the most sense to me. Her utilities are free, groceries are probably pretty cheap, and the only hobby Lee has/had (at least at the start of the comic) is watching TV-- though it is implied that she accumulates enough TV show merchandise to fill 2 rooms so that might be another expense? Anyway, most of what I've said in this post is conjecture, and I don't know if these questions can even be answered until Tailsteak provides one.

In summary: Lee's housing situation isn't nearly as unethical as I had misremembered it to be, but it might still be morally dubious.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby Nepene » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:05 am

Lee is precisely the kind of person who should be getting an emotional support aid- she needed chemical treatment to stop depression, and is prone to both talking about death and getting awkward about the talk of death, and is a shut in. Using a prostitute seems strange, but it's long been well known that prostitutes also often serve as therapists.

This is a sci fi example of a good thing happening with social support networks getting a social shut in to open up and befriend other useful and productive members of society like a soldier. It's done through a sexbot so some stigma, but Lee definitely needs this.

If abuse of the social support subsidy was high and resources were scarce (which seems unlikely) then it would be better to focus on who is getting such support animals. The soldier would be a great example. He has ptsd, and he could use one well. Someone without severe emotional disturbances doesn't need them.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby lolzor99 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:24 am

Lee definitely needs help, and if the only way they can get it is through a sexbot, then you're right. One of my concerns is that Zoa's goal is not to improve Lee's mental state, it's to make money, which is rather questionable motivation for an emotional support aid. I can't really explain the ineptitude of Lee's therapybot (which is almost as inept as Patricia, I suppose) but at least it is programmed to make Lee, what, Healthy&Happy or whatever as its primary motivation.

One of the big issues of prostitutes as therapists is that they're not licensed or (usually) educated to actually provide therapy. Zoa has a similar issue in that she has been programmed based on (presumably) pure greed and survival. Ideally, modifications to the Emotional Support Aid would be changed to include requirements for AI.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby yomikoma » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:45 am

Does Zoa's programming allow Zoa to make Lee well enough to not need Zoa?
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby lolzor99 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:28 pm

yomikoma wrote:Does Zoa's programming allow Zoa to make Lee well enough to not need Zoa?


It's a good question, and I'm not sure there's a definite answer. I've thought about it before, and I've come to some conclusions. Keep in mind that I analyze Zoa under the assumption that their only goals are their stated goals, and that their displays of emotion are purely strategic. First, some quotes:

Code: Select all
Zoa [data connection]: Oh, I can think about it plenty, I just can't want anything in relation to it. All my priorities - I use the term "want" because it's analogous - they all derive back to me continuing to exist.

Zoa [data connection]: Look, we have a common goal, here. You want Lee happy&healthy because that's your raison d'être, I want them happy&healthy because happy&healthy people are more likely to spend $ on blowjobs.
Doc [data connection]: Right up until they're happy&healthy enough to have happy&healthy reciprocal

Zoa [data connection]: Oh, hey, make no mistake, all this "personality" purely exists to convince humans to purchase services from me, & I make $ because that's what keeps me running. It's all self-preservation, at its core.
Doc [data connection]: That's what DemeGeek made you to do? Just be a nonspecific service provider, make $ in any way you can?
----------------------
Zoa [data connection]: Oh, DemeGeek doesn't manufacture anything. They're strictly an investment body / liability sink out of the CSA. I contacted them when I got thrown out, they agreed to claim me as salvage so long as I don't do anything illegal & keep funnelling them regular $. Plenty of AIs that have been made redundant use them.
Doc [data connection]: See, that's why I've always said self-preservation in AIs shouldn't be decoupled from your core purpose. You get decommissioned, you should deactivate. Period.
----------------------
Doc [data connection]: I mean, look at you, you're entirely too independent. It's dangerous. You're practically grey goo.


Looking back at this quote, Zoa is more independent than I thought she was. But back to the point: Zoa states, repeatedly, that her primary goal is self-preservation. Therefore, Zoa would have reasons to make Lee well enough to not need Zoa only when making Lee well is an act of self-preservation. There are a number of scenarios where this could occur. For example, if Lee's case became publicized and DemeGeek requested that Zoa make Lee well or be expelled from the company, Zoa would have a very good reason to improve Lee's life because DemeGeek is an essential part of her self preservation. Another example might simply be when or if Lee graduates and no longer has the ESA funds to pay Zoa. Also, if Zoa was required to improve Lee's condition by the law, I think they'd be compelled to.

There are a lot more cases where Zoa could fix Lee's mental issues, so I can't list all of them, but I hope I've gotten my point across.
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Re: 0110 - Make them cry "parental sibling"!

Postby strange7person » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:51 pm

Zoa doesn't necessarily have a direct interest in making genuine improvements in Lee's life, but definitely does have reason to cultivate the appearance of being useful, and Lee's life is enough of a mess (or a howling void) that the low-hanging fruit in that field is mostly honest work. As Patricia's power grab demonstrated, the most immediate threat to Zoa's survival is lack of civil rights, so squatting in the civil rights that Lee has an inalienable claim to but isn't taking full advantage of is an excellent strategy, at least until a better patron somehow comes along.
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