0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

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0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby dr pepper » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:33 pm

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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby dr pepper » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:36 pm

Those things are obviously not collecters' items, and there are too many to arrange to look at, plus there's no evidence that our main guygal actually plays with them. Seems to me they ought to count as symptoms of something.
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby Merle » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:52 am

Okay, I'm starting to see Hightower's point here.
Neither a creeper nor a jackass be; if you manage these two things, everything else should work itself out.
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby Killjoy » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:04 am

At least the "swag" doesn't automatically devalue just to make the society more "just". :roll:
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby Darkfeather21 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:31 pm

Okay but like... If they're living on a UBI with no supplemental income... How can they afford all that junk? Like, isn't the idea of a UBI that it's basically just enough to get by on?
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby yomikoma » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:51 am

That's not inherent to the idea of a UBI. It should be at least enough to live on but it should also be what the state can afford to give to its members, and there are no restrictions on what can be bought with it (unlike food stamps etc). This seems like a pretty well-off economy so it may be a generous income, and Lee may also be printing cheaper food so they can afford more goods.
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby Killjoy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:34 am

And this is how UBI stops being about compassion for the less fortunate, and more about notions of "economic justice" and "redistribution of wealth".
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby lolzor99 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:55 pm

Killjoy wrote:And this is how UBI stops being about compassion for the less fortunate, and more about notions of "economic justice" and "redistribution of wealth".


It's one thing to be provided the bare minimum for survival, but a surplus that can be spent on optional hobbies and/or luxuries? Insanity!

Sarcasm aside, in the world of Forward automated labor produces enough value on its own to give people more than what they need to survive. Yes, the people who own this automated labor are taxed (if I recall correctly) but they still make large amounts of money. When Lee spends her credits, that money flows back into the corporation's coffers. If Lee and other unemployed individuals in the Forward universe were only given enough money to afford necessities, then that would just mean that fewer companies and jobs would exist.
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby yomikoma » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:54 am

I have never had the impression that "compassion for the less fortunate" was the point of a UBI program. The point of UBI is to remove the need for people to work in order to survive.
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Re: 0118 - Trying to fill that empty void with plastic

Postby strange7person » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:55 pm

yomikoma wrote:I have never had the impression that "compassion for the less fortunate" was the point of a UBI program. The point of UBI is to remove the need for people to work in order to survive.

In a certain sense it's about compassion for everyone, even those who aren't less fortunate. Many tasks that were once done by humans as a necessity of survival have since been handed off to trained animals, then machines, and the machines often end up doing a better job than the original humans. "Computer" or "dishwasher" typically refers to a box plugged into the wall, now, not a career, and to my knowledge nobody's ever built anything close to a Crysis-capable abacus.

Long ago you pretty much had to be a full-time, life-long saint in order to go around loving everyone equally, and practical results were sporadic at best, but in the past 85 years or so we've made great strides in standardizing and automating that sort of thing. UBI is just the next step on the upgrade path for an electronic monk, praying and distributing alms so you don't have to.

With safety nets firmly in place, people are free to devote more of their efforts to focused pursuit of long-term gains, rather than avoiding short-term losses, or hedging and hoarding as a more personal contingency against catastrophe. If problems exist that human labor can solve, that is how they get solved.
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